The face of eeeevil

[icekatze]

hi hi

While I don't think it particularly fits in the spirit of Fey Winds, I have to say that one of my favorite villains is the one that resides inside the protagonist. It's really more of a staple of the horror genre, probably due to it's roots in the fear that trying and failing can make things worse, but I suppose it's not confined to it.

A few examples might be:
• Lord of the Rings, the greed and lust for power that the Ring brought out in people was something that came from within.
• The Incredible Hulk can be both a protagonist and an antagonist simultaneously since while he's trying to do good, he keeps getting out of hand.
• King Midas and his turning things into gold, he's both the protagonist and the villain.

[Shrike]

I wouldn't call Midas a villain, because his wish for the golden touch was just a really badly thought out decision on his part. He wasn't malicious with anything that he did, and he fixed his problem when it got out of hand.

I just finished a book called The Name of the Rose, which is a Sherlock Holmes-type mystery set in a Benedictine monastery in 1327. It's really good, and I really like the villain, an old monk named Jorge who spins a web of murder and subterfuge to keep a certain book from being read; the book basically argues that laughter and comedy is something that should be widely practiced and enjoyed, and Jorge fears that if people learn to laugh their troubles away they will no longer fear God and will fall into sinful lives and bring about the apocalypse. Kind of a convoluted theory, but the plot he comes up with is really cool once it gets unraveled.
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Shine on, you crazy diamonds!
Rule #37: There is no overkill. There is only "open fire" and "time to reload."

[nicoleC]

Ooh yeah! I like the hero/villains too... I also like the fallen hero types who are still convinced they're acting for the greater good when they're actually completely off the rocker! ...And those super-twisted genius villains like in The Name of the Rose, too...I love trying to solve their schemes before the heroes do XD (And guessing the ends of mysteries in movies and on TV too.... but depending on who I'm watching them with, it might make me the main villain...)
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[icekatze]

hi hi

You're only a villainous plot revealing villain if you blurt the solution out loud, and it's not a really stupid twist, at which point you can say something like "Oh em gee, (exposition here) better not be what happened."

King Midas really depends on who's telling the story I guess. In some versions he's just a naive guy who doesn't realize what he's doing, in other's he's a greedy monster.

[Ectorius]

I'm adding Dr. Horrible to my list, because his was a strange, entertaining, and interesting journey.
And Bad Horse, Thoroughbred of Sin, leader of the Evil League of Evil.
www.DrHorrible.com


Also, the bad guy from Watchmen, I'm not posting his name because it would be a spoiler for those who have not read it, and it's not so wildly popular that everyone knows who he is... but more or less, scheming mastermind that's trying to fix the world "his way".
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*nom nom nom*

[kewdle]

I agree about Dr. Horrible. <3

I aslo think Malificent(sp?) from Sleepy Beauty was a great classic villian. And probably the more interesting than Aurora was in that movie. But nevertheless.

Also, the... pollution thing from Ferngully scared the crap out of me when I was a little kid. I think it was the way that he wanted to destroy everything for no real gain of his own.

Oh, and Ursula scared me when I was little too, as did Cruella Devil.

I seem to be prone to liking villians that use magic or are just plain evil for no real reason. :3
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Wouldn't it be loverly?

[Kitty]

My most memorable villans are:
Karras from Thief II: Metal Age. Mad ex-Hammerite and the founder of Mechanists which a deep hate to everything organic. Made still-lasting impression on me because of his writings, and voice; you won't get to fight him but his crazy and very determined personality built up by soundwork to unbelievable presence. Devised a pretty clever plan to destroy the <organic> world which would had worked if not for Garrett's interferance.

GLADoS from "Portal". It is hard to describe, you have to play the game to hear her taking about this and that and cake.

Hojo from FF7 and addons. I can't say that he is my favorite but he is a guy whom I would like to beat up really badly because of his totaly negligence to everything aside of his own power and experiments. So he left a lasting impression as well.

Griffith from manga "Berserk". I like the manga a lot and I think he is making a very interesting villan because, while he is a demon-lord, he poses as a White Knight and Savior of Humanity and it is interesting to see how his plans unfold.

Melmoth the Wanderer. Not as much as "evil boss" but clearly the antagonist of the book with the same name by Charles Robert Maturin. I read it when I was in middle school and while the character itself was not that scary or mad or anything (he just sold this soul to Hell in exchange for extra hundred years of life), what he did with people was pretty horrible.

Honorable mention:
GodKing Garoth from Brent Weeks' The Night Angel Trilogy (first two books). Effective, very ruthless, very powerful, very determined to take over the whole world, cruel but in a cold, level-headed way, clever. Aside of being killed and very cruel (did I mention that he is ruthless?) kind of reminds of Sigurd.

Count Monte-Cristo (from original Duma's novels). While I don't like him, he makes an example of very machiavellious antagonist who uses all his resources to take (and greatly overdo) his revenge.

Phoenix King from Avatar: The Last Airbender (I sympatize with Azula a bit too much to consider her a villan). Mostly because it is clearly shown as his own greed for power and dominance turned a (probably) good father and husband into creature without most of moral limits.

Old Overlord from game Overlord I. By short but very impressive last fight scene and his general idea what to do with heroes who broke his Tower and almost killed him.

New Overlord from Overlord I. Because he is (by canon reading) quite noble despite being a towering guy in spiky black armor who brings (relative by canon) death and destruction to (not that much by canon) everything.

Joker from "Dark Knight" (Batman movie by Nolan). Because he is scary personification of crazy chaos.

Dislike:
I don't usually remember dissapointing villans (bad heroes are much more memorable) but there is one which I want to mention.
Big Turtle. Current boss of 12-man instance "Strange Happenings" in Lord of The Rings Online. Kills me every, every time. I hate that turtle!
It is just vere sturdy, very devastating killing monster which kills me with acid regardless of what I do. Kind of like Juggernaut, only not that fast.

[nicoleC]

Oh I'm at the same point as you and your evil Turtle with Hodir from Ulduar in WoW.... I know how you feel!! XD

[Kitty]

And there is a "Barbeque" boss in Halls of Craftings too... I mean, you have to fight him in quite small room which looks pretty much like a BBQ grill and has all that flame coming from below too...*sob*
MMORG end-game bosses are memorable because they kill you so very quickly, especially if you a squishi wizard-like person...

[Bookworm]

Ah, excellent topic choice!

I actually was a movie reviewer for a College newspaper so I got to talk about this subject in a column or two. Was alot of fun.

Favorite Villians.

Darth Vader-Evil, psychopathic, but you still end up rooting for him. He's the perfect example of a bad guy with depth and true character.

Joker-From the most recent Batman movie and Batman Arkham Asylum. There are two different Joker's shown here but both are incredibly fascinating and terrifying. As a fun bit of a trivia, did you know that Joker in Batman: Arkham Asylum is voiced by Mark Hamill, more commonly known as Luke Skywalker?

GLADoS-Whoever brought her up is quite right. That computer is downright terrifying in every way. "The cake is a lie" still gets me.

Bad Villians.

As regard the horrible villians, quite a few would be from the Joel Schumaker Batman abominations. Here a few of the Worst of the Worst.

Mr. Freeze-Honestly, having "Ah-nuld" play the parts of one of the most intelligent villians in the Batman Universe. Come on now!

The Riddler-Two words. Groin. Bulge. I have never seen Jim Carrey naked, for which I am endlessly grateful, but apparently the dude is stacked. I could even see him turn around without wincing and resisting the urge to duck. It was a horrible, horrible movie but still, that just took the cake.

Poison Ivy-She's a hot redhead wearing nothing but some artfully placed leaves. She's every comic book geeks dream-girl. In the movie Joel turned her from hot plant-lady to 5-dollar hooker. She wasn't mysterious orenigmatically sexy like I've always seen her portrayed. She was a slightly frumpy, overly-amorous, sleazeball.

Anakin Skywalker-Wait, you say...isn't Anakin just Darth Vader? Heck no! Lucas is trying to rape my childhood memories. I REFUSE to let this whining, mewling, pathetic excuse for a baddie ruin Vader for me. Keep the emo pain out of Star wars!

[Ronnoc]

Well I've been meaning to post on this thread for a while.

I have one major criteria for a good villain which is that they must be competent. There is nothing more dissapointing then seeing the Hero win just because the villain was an idiot. The protagonists should work for their ending curse it! (My dungeon master side is leaking through again).

Beyond being competent I like Fallen/Anti-Heroes because there is a certain sadness at the loss of potential for good and because they force the Protagonists and readers to think about which side of the conflict truly is good.

I also enjoy villains who combine competence with utter ruthlessness. They make for dispicable people but you just love to hate them.

Good- Invidia Aquitaine and her husband Attis from the Codex Alera.
Magneto from X-Men comics, and both Raas' al Ghoul and the Joker from the most recent batman movies.

Bad- A recent example the Colonel from Avatar. What was the point of the giant shuttle and it's payload? The tree of souls wasn't that big a single HE missle would have taken the thing out meaning you wouldn't need to fly escort around the slower shuttle and there certainly wasn't a need for the superflous ground force.
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I don't know everything, merely everything of importance- Fidelias

[nicoleC]

Bookworm- Yeah I did know that the Joker is voiced by Mark Hamill, he's been voicing him since the Animated Series I think (and does an excellent job!)

I agree x1000 about Anakin Skywalker..... In fact, I hate him as a "hero" too, probably more than when he finally snaps and goes Dark Side. I have the Clone Wars tv series (the 3D one) on dvd and I've been watching the episodes thinking "boy these would be good if there was no Anakin in them". I would have loved to see his fall from grace but from another angle (and with Anakin as an actual hero before falling rather than irresponsible whiny child).

DO NOT WAAAAANT
http://winterson.com/2005/06/episode-iii-backstroke-of-west.html/


Ronnoc- I agree about competent villains. Villain incompetence is something that really scares me when it comes to writing one.

As for your villain list, is Codex Alera good? ( I can guess it is since the villains are good, but sometimes the bad guys are better than the books they're in) I've been looking for a book to read lately XD

[icekatze]

hi hi

Villain competence is a really tricky subject. It is one of those situations that needs balance because it is also possible to have villains that are too competent, don't feel plausible or are unrealistically capable. I'm sure everyone has seen a movie/TV show/book where no matter what the heroes do the villain always is one step ahead of them and everything they do is all a part of his eeeebil plan (up until the very end anyway), even when the heroes are thrashing about randomly and don't know what they are doing themselves.

Dewey from Eureka Seven came really close to being that way, but the writers managed to avoid it by allowing the heroes to foil his plans every once in a while, he just had a nigh infinite number of backup plans that would then kick in.

[Jezni]

Oh man this topic is awesome.

Whoever suggested YoSaffBridge is amazing. She really is great. And I actually was sad when she didn't end up with her husband... you know which one.

Azula is fantastic. I've always loved her, mainly because she was very smart and always had a plan, and yet was still a villain. A powerful villain. And the finale oh my god.

Opal Koboi is easily my favorite Fowl villain. Truffles. (Not really evil but whatever)

Frollo- Hellfire. That is all.

[Aran]

I'd reckon all those damn Old Gods, and more importantly, Chin-monster, erm I mean Dragon, aka Deathwing, he is just awesome.


Oh, Sindragosa Heroic 25man has taken upon herself to keep killing me with her Frost Explosion, just like how good ol' Flamegor tried to roast me after I killed her when I was the last one alive.

I'd remember more villians, but as I'm rooted in WoW currently:

Kael'Thas, He is a villian, but I can relate with him, if my people had such a problem as they had I wouldn't shun summoning a creature who can solve that problem too.